Talk:Gay men

Lead image

I've seen two proposals for the lead image in the article, both of which show two men at a pride parade, but there's been some disagreement about them. The old image, as an editor pointed out, has been on the page for some time, whereas the new image (initially added to the article by Pastelitodepapa) was on the page for about a month. Personally I favor the new image for the reasons Pastelitodepapa gave, primarily that it's more racially diverse, as well as both containing more men in the background and the men in the foreground of the image are facing more towards the camera. Any consensus on this? Qqars (talk) 16:45, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

Agree. The new image is a better representation of a range of gay men in line with WP:CSB, and an image depicting only white-looking men feeds into Racial bias on Wikipedia. If that new image isn't favored for some reason, perhaps a different one could be found where it's not just white people for the MOS:LEADIMAGE. Let's be constructive and not status quo stonewall just because a different image was there before. Pastelitodepapa (talk) 03:11, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Agree. See also: c:commons:Deletion requests/File:Capital Pride 2015 Washington DC USA 56935 (18807500951).jpg. If the person requesting privacy points personality rights violation, he can contact WP:VRT/C:COM:VRT proving he is the person. Vivb1 (talk) 03:24, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

I tried that deletion request link and it doesn't appear to work, or the request was deleted as invalid. Am I missing in this talk page discussion where someone claimed to be in the photo and wanting it removed? Pastelitodepapa (talk) 03:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

Try this: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Capital_Pride_2015_Washington_DC_USA_56935_(18807500951).jpg LIrala (talk) 16:51, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

Comment. Before we start notvoting, I would be interested in comparing a pool of multiple candidate images, as we did at Talk:Lesbian/Archive 18. I appreciate that the current image (now Option A) is high-quality, depicts an unambiguous affectionate gesture between two real men, and contains a pride flag. The proposed image (now Option B) also succeeds at those criteria while also showing racial diversity, so it is arguably an improvement. However, I don't want us to capriciously bounce between any of the (likely at least a dozen) potentially suitable images; we should try to discover all of them.. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (talk • stalk) 03:55, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

• +1 !vote for Roxy's statement. To have an informed consensus, we need to show the various options side-by-side and have more than just the 'old' and 'new' options. Ta, Bitten Peach (talk) 11:47, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

Coming back to this discussion, I think Option B is a better photo, and should replace the current. But going forward I would still encourage collecting a gallery of other candidates to enable a stronger and more informed consensus. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (talk • stalk) 14:35, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

Indifferent, but... captions like "Gay men at X" seem a bit presumptuous of peoples sexual orientations, no? It's likely they are gay men, but either could be bisexual. Perhaps we could say 'gay couple'. Another option would be to use a gay couple who are known as gay. Zenomonoz (talk) 04:30, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

I agree that it would be better to say something like, "Gay couple at a Washington DC pride event" for Option B in the caption. Pastelitodepapa (talk) 22:54, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

I do not agree to remove the image of the two men kissing that has remained in the introduction of the article for years. The reason given for removing it is that they are 2 white men. It does not seem to me to be a strong enough argument. The image of the 2 men kissing is more in keeping with the concept of gay than an image of men who are on a parade Esterau16 (talk) 12:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

Summary thus far after 1 week: So far it looks like we have at least four in favor of changing the lead image to Option B (Qqars, Pastelitodepapa, Vivb1, RoxySaunders, and it appears Mason7512 as well for five in favor); one indifferent (Zenomonoz); and one opposed (Esterau16). This means 5 to 1 are in favor of making the change. Is that enough in favor for consensus? It doesn't need to be unanimous. RoxySaunders requested some more photo ideas, and I reviewed several relevant categories for some potential alternatives and here are two other candidates for future discussion I could find: Option C and Option D. To be honest I prefer Option B over A, C, and D. Feel free to add any other potential images to the gallery below for discussion of course.-Pastelitodepapa (talk) 02:30, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

I agree with images A, C and D. My favorite is A, but I would have no problem if it is replaced by image C or D, because it fulfills what the lead image should be: two men kissing. And if what you are looking for is to reflect racial diversity, image C is very good. Esterau16 (talk) 14:43, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

There are a some users who have commented here who have not yet chosen an image. I mention them: User:Vivb1 User:RoxySaunders User:Bitten Peach User:LIrala Esterau16 (talk) 10:50, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

Apologies. I thought I'd already posted. I prefer image A because i find it cleaner and less cluttered, but understand the preference for B. I do not like C or D at all. Ta, Bitten Peach (talk) 12:43, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

My preference is for option B (for diversity + at least one of the guys is looking towards the camera), however I think A is also fine. Not a fan of C mostly because the lighting is weird, and D just because I feel like it's a little to formal as well as predisposing one to thinking about gay men in terms similar to heterosexual couples which I don't think is productive given the content of the article. I think it would be nice if we could find something equivalent to B given the request for deletion (nothing has been done, but it seems reasonable to me that the request is honest), but I haven't been able to find anything. Qqars (talk) 22:16, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

Agree. Picture B is more engaging because it shows them acknowledging the camera. It is also better because the presence of other people helps to locate them within a community. As such, it shows gay men facing the world as well as each other. Diversity is also a plus although I don't think that is the main consideration. The other two pictures (C and D) are similar to the old one (A) and, while there is nothing wrong with any of them, they are not as engaging as picture B. --DanielRigal (talk) 18:11, 30 June 2025 (UTC)

Summary after a month of discussion: 6 support Image B: Qqars, Pastelitodepapa, Vivb1, RoxySaunders, Mason7512, and DanielRigal. 1 is okay with B: Bitten Peach (but prefers A). 1 is neutral: Zenomonoz. 1 is opposed: Esterau16. Please correct me if that overview is incorrect. Esterau is opposed in part because they say the people should be kissing in the picture. I would contend that the equivalent lead image of consensus on Lesbian is of two people who are not kissing, and that mouth kissing is not necessary to communicate sexuality in a photograph. Qqar and myself both did searches for more equivalent photographs, but A, B, C, & D below seemed to be the best options either of us could find. Qqar noted there was a deletion request for B a long time ago, but there hasn't been any change there, and the original public photo on another site would need to be removed first. Since it seems the claimant/requester lost interest in pursuing their request it seems the photo is staying on Wikimedia. If it gets removed we can cross that bridge when that happens. Because of the 6 supporters for image B, and only one person opposed, and because of a lack of another image with strong consensus, I propose that we implement image B as the lead image of consensus. It's been a month, but are there any last thoughts? I will implement the change in a few days if someone hasn't already. Pastelitodepapa (talk) 01:33, 6 July 2025 (UTC)

These users have not yet made a choice between A, B, C and D: User:Vivb1 User:RoxySaunders User:LIrala Esterau16 (talk) 14:32, 7 July 2025 (UTC)

It's been over two weeks since those users were flagged for this discussion which is now almost two months old. Vivb1 and RoxySaunders both approved of the switch to B, and Llrala hasn't responded, so since 6 support Image B (Qqars, Pastelitodepapa, Vivb1, RoxySaunders, Mason7512, and DanielRigal), 1 is okay with B but prefers A (Bitten Peach), 1 is neutral (Zenomonoz), and 1 is opposed (Esterau16) then I will make the change of consensus for the lead image to image B after nearly two months of the topic being open to input. Pastelitodepapa (talk) 09:36, 23 July 2025 (UTC)

Potential Lead Image Options:

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