Talk:Saddam Hussein

Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2025

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In the section Trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein#Trial, there are claims made that are completely unsubstantiated by the cited source https://web.archive.org/web/20110202053302/http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,187923,00.html.

"Numerous challenges came during his trial. Saddam and his lawyers contested the court's authority and maintained that he was still the President of Iraq.[214] There were assassinations and attempted assassinations of several of Saddam's lawyers.[214] The replacement of the chief presiding judge midway through the trial had impact on the trial.[214]"

1) The article doesn't mention Saddam's lawyers contesting the court's authority. It was just Saddam. 2) Nothing in this article mentions assassinations or attempts against Saddam’s lawyers.

“The replacement of the chief presiding judge midway through the trial had impact on the trial.” 3) Not supported. The article only mentions the chief judge Raouf Abdel-Rahman presiding, but does not say anything about replacement of judges.

SUGGESTIONS

Change "Saddam and his lawyers contested the court's authority and maintained that he was still the President of Iraq.[214]" to "Saddam contested the court's authority and maintained that he was still the President of Iraq.[214]"

Remove "There were assassinations and attempted assassinations of several of Saddam's lawyers.[214] The replacement of the chief presiding judge midway through the trial had impact on the trial.[214]" 85.253.168.70 (talk) 23:26, 13 September 2025 (UTC)

 Not done: Rather than removing all of this material, we simply need better sourcing. It is indisputably true that Saddam's lawyers questioned the tribunal's legitimacy, that at least one of them (Khamis Al-Obeidi) was assassinated, and that the chief judge was replaced during the trial. The article should be updated with sources found at Trial of Saddam Hussein. Day Creature (talk) 04:23, 14 September 2025 (UTC)

Dictator?

Shouldn't Sadam Hussein also be listed as a dictator? Since he fits those requirements JBurris123 (talk) 15:44, 4 October 2025 (UTC)

The label is very disputed, his charatistics, while some may connect to dictator ones, he is alot more benevolant then other dictators, which is characterised by his mass-development compaigns, his literacy reforms, hes dedication to womens rights, his promotion of iraqi secularism and the protection of religious minorites, with alot of iraqis feeling nostalgic for him and iraq during his leadership, he would be an example of a middle eastern tito, so i believe he does no deserve the title of dictator, and it should be kept as President Local Mandaean (talk) 06:48, 9 October 2025 (UTC)

"he is alot more benevolant then other dictators" There is the concept of the benevolent dictatorship, where an authoritarian leader is benefiting the population of his/her country by producing (or enabling) rapid economic growth. It is something of a republican equivalent to enlightened absolutism.: "Everything for the people, nothing by the people". Dimadick (talk) 08:23, 10 October 2025 (UTC)

There is a need for key seperation of a dictator and a benevolant one, because if we for example label Saddam a dictator, instead of President, then we should also be altering the wikipedias of other benevolant leaders such as Lee Kuan Yew who transformed singapore, or Mustafa Kemal who saved turkey from imperalism, to label them dictators rather then Presidents is simply wrong, Local Mandaean (talk) 01:15, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

A benevolent dictator is still a dictator. It is not non-dictators that conduct violent purges of their own government. Remikipedia (talk) 04:05, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

In any western country with the death penalty still interplentated, Treason is stil met with death, Saddam simply did that, he executed around 21 traitors, and arrested 68 others, this would be common place anywhere to deal with state-treason when the death scentence is allowed. If that is inherently right is different though. Local Mandaean (talk) 01:09, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

1) you missed my entire point. 2) "simply did that" lmao. ~~~ Remikipedia (talk) 03:16, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

Top image

A(Current)

B

I submit that the best image for this article will be when the subject was at or near the height of their notability, and the late 1960s isn't it. The color image from the late 90s was a far better fit. I'm not suggesting it's the best possible choice, but it is far more suitable than the black-and-white choice placed today. Stefen 𝕋ower_{'s got the power!!1!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 22:28, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

To wit, Saddam wasn't even the prime minister of Iraq until 1979. You have to at least go with an image from that year or later. Stefen 𝕋ower_{'s got the power!!1!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 22:39, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

Emiya1980 by the placing of the images, are you making an argument that we are to decide based on technical quality alone, even thought the black-and-white is from a decade before Saddam became prime minister? Stefen 𝕋ower_{'s got the power!!1!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 23:11, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

If you're asking editors to choose between two images, I don't see why they shouldn't view their choices side-by-side.Emiya1980 (talk) 23:15, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

So you're making an argument that we judge by visuals alone, then? Note that images are not for decoration purposes - they are to convey information as part of the article. It would be useful for you to explain for others here why a black-and-white image of Saddam a full decade before he was prime minister must be used when we had a color image of when he was at the height of his power and global notability. Stefen 𝕋ower_{'s got the power!!1!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 23:34, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

You're bludgeoning the process. You've already had your say on why you think the colored image of Saddam is preferable for this article. Now let other editors give their opinions as to why or why not that should be the case. Emiya1980 (talk) 23:37, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

You are WP:wikilawyering to avoid explaining your position. Since you are the one who insists on placing the b&w image, it behooves you to explain why it should be chosen. Participants here know my position. What is yours? Stefen 𝕋ower_{'s got the power!!1!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 23:42, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

I am not obligated to explain my position to you again. If I want to chip in, I will. Until then, drop it. Emiya1980 (talk) 23:45, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

You have not stated your position in this discussion. All I'm asking is that you explain it for other participants. It's the fair thing to do. Stefen 𝕋ower_{'s got the power!!1!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 23:47, 6 October 2025 (UTC)

Your hounding of me over on Stephen Miller (advisor) is not appreciated and shows an utter lack of maturity on your part. If you want to revert the image, knock yourself out. You're lucky I don't report you to the admins for harassment. Emiya1980 (talk) 00:17, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedians are required to discuss under WP:BRD. At any rate, since you are allowing the revert, I shall proceed. Stefen 𝕋ower_{'s got the power!!1!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 00:20, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

What harassment? I am simply asking that you explain your position as you are required to do as a Wikipedian. Why the evasiveness? Stefen 𝕋ower_{'s got the power!!1!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 00:28, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

Before this back-and-forth, I was not aware of the recent RFC from a few months ago. It appears that the current image (A) was decided/kept by that process. I don't believe it is optimal, but processes reign supreme here at Wikipedia. If there's a new RFC at some point, I shall be sure to participate. It would have been nice if someone mentioned the RFC here, as it was hidden in the archive (probably too quickly).

Anyway, since another editor wants us to choose which image is prettier, I go with B, of course. :) Stefen 𝕋ower_{'s got the power!!1!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 00:50, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

B. Notability to who? Saddam's international notability would be the 1980s-1990s with the Iran-Iraq War and the First Gulf War. Arguably the early 2000s too with the Second American Invasion of Iraq. I think the image being in colour is important too, this is not a figure from a age before colour. Remikipedia (talk) 04:02, 18 October 2025 (UTC)

I also support using the latest image (B) when it is much more relevant than the first picture. Shubhsamant09 (talk) 01:30, 5 November 2025 (UTC)

Iraqi 1991 uprisings

"The uprisings led to the death of 100,000–180,000 people, mostly civilians." I have extensively researched the 1991 iraqi uprising and have understood how it happened in almost every governate extending from basra to erbil, after conducting large spread research and even looking at the sources used on this article, it is exaggeration to say over 100,000-180,000 people died during the iraqi 1991 uprisings, by this time iraqs population was nearing around 18 million people, to say that over 350,000 died during the iran iraq war, that supposedly (this has been disproven many times) during the gulf war anymore then 20,000 died, (some exaggerated media have boosted the iraqi death-score to over 100.000 in the gulf war) it is almost demographically impossible to manage the deaths (according to these sources) of over 650,000 people to 750,000 dying in the span of 20 years, majority of these people would be the bulk of young men, seeing this there should be a obvious population drop and or halt, we have not seen this anywhere and during this time the iraqi populationg grew as normal, in 1995, there were still more MEN then women, this almost completely disproves these exaggerated numers. This article in specific, while not about the 1991 uprising mentions that over 100,000 civillians were killed by saddam, the source, shows a "mass" grave, which had 38 people... how are we to use that at all as a proper-source to prove the death of over 100,000 people? That isnt a small numer. Local Mandaean (talk) 12:38, 14 October 2025 (UTC)

Remember that the decisions made in the article should be based on what previously published material states and not our own analyses (this is what Wikipedia:No original research states). Generally, what figures do published academic sources generally say about such uprisings? When one compiles a list, one should generally use what results we find. WhisperToMe (talk) 14:28, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

Of course, i will be happy to compile proper proof and sources, that is the right way Local Mandaean (talk) 03:05, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 November 2025

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The page states about Saddam's youngest daughter Hala Hussein:

"Her father arranged for her to marry General Kamal Mustafa Abdallah Sultan al-Tikriti"

However, pages

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Mustafa_Abdullah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Mustafa_Abdullah

both suggest that she was married to Jamal Mustafa Abdullah. ~2025-31548-67 (talk) 10:37, 7 November 2025 (UTC)

 Done This is also confirmed by the cited source in this article. Day Creature (talk) 17:14, 7 November 2025 (UTC)

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Iran-Iraq war section

After taking time to read the arabic variant of Saddams wikipedia, i see alot more accurate infomation and context which explains the start of the iran-iraq war and what caused it, this page tends to follow a very straight, Iranian Revolution -> saddam scared -> khomeini encourages iraqi to rise up -> saddam wants khuzehstan! -> saddam declare war

I have roughly translated the arabic variant into english, just to showcase what i mean, i will highlight key things i believe we should add to the english variant of saddams article

In 1979, the Islamic Revolution took place in Iran, overthrowing the regime of Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, and the Islamists established an Islamic Republic in Iran under the leadership of Khomeini. During this period, Iraqi–Iranian disputes escalated: the two countries exchanged expulsions of ambassadors, and border clashes began between them for ten months over entitlement to the disputed Shatt al-Arab waterway. In 1980, Iraq unilaterally annulled the Algiers Agreement concluded with the Shah of Iran in 1975 concerning the Shatt al-Arab, and Saddam Hussein declared Iraq’s sovereignty over all its land and waters. As the border clashes intensified, Iran carried out several attacks on border villages between 13 June 1979 and the last aerial attack on 4 September 1980. In response, after assessing the situation and corresponding with the United Nations Security Council, Iraq moved to retake the villages occupied by Iran on 17 September 1980. Following this, Iranian bombardment escalated to strike entire cities, prompting the Iraqi response on 22 September 1980, which marked the outbreak of the war between the two countries. Iraqi aircraft bombed Mehrabad Airport near Tehran, and Iraqi forces entered Iran’s oil-rich Khuzestan region on 22 September 1980.

these add alot more context to the war, and remove alot of western bias on how the war actually started, i believe we should use sources both from the arabic-variant wiki, aswell as some other english sources to rewrite the iran-iraq war section to include what i had highlighted, and else more. Local Mandaean (talk) 11:13, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

I don't see the summary above as being dramatically different from that provided in our article, and there is no reason to assume that the Arabic Wikipedia is necessarily a superior source to the English Wikipedia on this or any topic. While the comparison is acceptable on a talk page, no Wikipedia is a reliable source in itself, so the underlying sources would need to be reviewed before proposing any concrete changes.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 11:30, 21 December 2025 (UTC)

The above summary is more specific in the later events of the war, our page is able to identify that there were border clashes, but it seems more sidelined, rather this summary structures it that the war had started BECAUSE of specific clashes, i dont think we should completely redo our summary, just put in points such as Iraqs coopeation with the UN about the situation and gaining permission to retake villages IRAN occupied, and then irans response which ignited iraq to go to war.

But yes, i agree, sources show be reviewed Local Mandaean (talk) 02:58, 22 December 2025 (UTC)

Peace Treaty With Iran

The article says

Under the [Algiers Accord], Iraq was granted sovereignty over the eastern bank of the waterway, while Iran retained control over the western bank.

Shouldn't eastern and western be the other way around? Molinari (talk) 21:41, 20 January 2026 (UTC)